Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: You automate this process. All you are doing is taking a very complex manual process and you have now turned it into a very complex digital process. The only thing is you've taken the paperwork that's visible and now it becomes digital cues. I fight this every day. We, we have become a society of shiny things. We like shiny things. So programs, apps, these are all shiny things to us. But really to improve our process, to me is taking it out of it and learning to reduce the complexity and then then applying automation. So automation on top of complexity, in most cases it makes things worse.
[00:00:41] Speaker B: Welcome to why they Fail, the podcast that pulls back the curtain on why continuous improvement efforts fail. Buckle up because we're not here for motivational fluff. We're dissecting the short sighted decisions and leadership agendas that sabotage CI success. But don't wor story.
[00:01:01] Speaker A: We'll clue you in to the few.
[00:01:02] Speaker B: Simple keys to success to avoid these pitfalls. If you're ready for the truth, let's do this.
[00:01:14] Speaker C: Why do over 90% of continuous improvement efforts fail or get abandoned within 18 months? It's a staggering statistic, but it highlights a critical Success isn't just about tools and belts. It's about culture. Many companies want the quick fix, expecting a single green belt to save the world, only to see their efforts stall. They fall into the trap of letting leadership agendas, not data, pick projects leading to sub optimization and a dismal return on investment.
Today we're cracking the code on what it truly takes to build a sustainable continuous improvement culture that lasts.
We're joined by Curt Niemann, a master black belt and the principal quality improvement specialist for IT at Discount Tire. With a deep well of experience leading customer service and quality initiatives at major companies like Honeywell and Allied Signal, Kurt has seen firsthand what separates the deployments that thrive from those that fail. He understands the journey from a world class top down CI culture to to building one from the ground up.
[00:02:23] Speaker A: Kurt, we've known each other for several years, five or six years. You and I think your team went through my class at one point in time and you've had a couple of people go through from Discount Tire in into our classes. I've watched your career and you know we converse sometimes about continuous improvement.
[00:02:44] Speaker B: Right.
[00:02:45] Speaker A: Kurt is head of IT for Discount Tires.
[00:02:49] Speaker B: I'm the head of the quality improvement function within our IT organization which is about 350 full time employees, at least as many contractors.
[00:02:59] Speaker A: Excellent. That's. And that's a big job to manage all those people. So Kurt and I had really started talking about some classes in continuous improvement and been talking on and off. So I want to first start off by what was the catalyst that got you into continuous improvement? It got you into, you know, things like Lean and Six Sigma.
[00:03:23] Speaker B: Thanks, Kevin, and good afternoon. Thanks for having me. And I, you know, one of the things I want to say up front is I remain tremendously grateful to all of the coaches, mentors and leadership I've seen in my career. Now pushing 40 years with Alison Engine Company, Rolls Royce, and then Allied Signal and Honeywell Discount Tire. I hope at Discount Tire we don't change the name on the front of the building like they did at the prior employers, but you never know.
Yeah, that journey really began with a real interest just coming out of Purdue. I had BS in Industrial management. Kind of natural fit to the factory floor. Right. But I had a real interest in customer service and technical customer support. So always been very keen on trying to make our products and services that I deliver just as easy to use and have the best possible outcomes that our customers could ever have. At Rolls Royce, I wasn't involved in any continuous program. It may have existed, it may not have. I don't really know. I just wasn't in that part of the business. I was in field service engineering, customer service engineering at the factory for military customers, for aviation, both airline and business aviation all over the world. So that's kind of my background. But when I was at the Allied Signal, between them and General Electric and Motorola, Lean Six Sigma was an opportunity to really drive improved efficiencies in safety, quality, delivery and cost, which we could pass on to our customers. And so it was there that Kevin, I got invited. Well, every employee that goes to work for Allied Signal got Greenbelt trained. So I went in with a. A group of eight or so people and went through the week of training or the book training. But then, you know, we had to apply the project. You couldn't get certified without your Lean Master or your black belt. And we had split there at Allied Signal, they were done. Not. They hadn't been combined yet.
I got my green belt as part of a project. We were, I think we were launching a new CRM and changing process of how we interacted with our customers. So there was that. But then I had an opportunity as part of a, what was a leadership development program at the time, to become a Lean expert. So again, the training there is divided up into four separate weeks of training with work done in between and has and culminates in, again, an application of A project with fellow lean experts. So I had lean master, somebody who I still talk to on and off today, who, who was leading the charge there and, and we had an applied project and, and once I got my certification, uh, I actually got done a little bit early and I asked if I could do the black belt track and I did that too.
So. But I never called myself, never did call myself a black belt because I didn't practice it much. So I, I really was a functional lean expert thereafter.
At the time I stayed, I didn't go back into the job pool as a lean expert, actually worked in that role supporting different parts of the business. So I went to different sites in the Phoenix metro area of Honeywell's. Wherever help was needed, we were called in. I might come as a team, I come as myself. I recall a particular project where, you know, 93% of the products that Honeywell made worked really, really well. But then there was a small percentage where you know, the performance wasn't there, the reliability wasn't there, the cost of ownership. They had some sort of deficiency. And I was working with a team of engineers who would work on those projects for kind of pareto out the issues and see which products were the really causing the biggest headaches. Our customers of course we'd listen to them about what's not working. And so this team would work on these, investigate, do root cause corrective action on these mechanical equipment largely. And what the leadership of that organization told us is that you know, you guys are working on a lot of thing but nothing's coming out the other end, the volume is really low. So call in the, the lean experts. And we quickly identified which was really a theory of constraints capacity issue is that they're working way more issues at the head capacity so they weren't getting any flow. So you know, value stream, mapped it and so forth. But in the end you could have done ethereum constraint, sort of look at it and manage it too. Once we aligned capacity, everything sped up and we started producing the solutions that we could get out to our customers and improve the whatever the deficiency was in the product. So my journey started there. I went back into the general work pool in another role in a manager of a different group. But the expectation whether you're green belt, lean expert or black belt, was that you provide mentorship to other green belt trainees. So I did some of that as collateral duty and then just apply what I had learned in my normal day to day job. So there were, there were.
[00:08:31] Speaker A: Let me ask you a question.
[00:08:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:34] Speaker A: So we're talking about this was your time at Honeywell. Correct.
And in Honeywell, the lean or lean Six Sigma culture is embedded. And it's, it's, it's required that, that everybody have some belt levels. And so everybody takes part in improving.
[00:08:53] Speaker B: A process 100% of the employees.
[00:08:56] Speaker A: It's just not, not a small CI team that goes around and makes changes.
[00:09:01] Speaker B: Yeah, it's integrated in the culture. I mean, they talk that way, they act that way.
[00:09:06] Speaker A: Right.
[00:09:07] Speaker B: It was a pretty small.
[00:09:08] Speaker A: And this was all, this is all put. This was all pushed down by leaders.
[00:09:14] Speaker B: They did that program at Allied Signal was under his leadership.
[00:09:18] Speaker A: So what kind of, you know, a return on investment did you see if.
[00:09:23] Speaker B: I share a little bit about the order management experience where I was a director.
Talk about that for a moment. Because you asked about what was the outcome of the work, you know, why was it useful? What was the value? Why would, why would anyone care? Well, in the order management organization, of course, Honeywell has probably the broadest product line of any aerospace supplier in the industry.
So from, you know, avionics to mechanical equipment to just extremely broad number of part numbers. So the order management organization was fairly large. And there was a lot of observed defects, rework, some customer dissatisfaction. So we had data that told us it wasn't particularly easy to do business with us. And so I was challenged in that role as the director.
As a director, I had a colleague that did that similar sort of work, responsible for different work streams to reduce the number of defects that were occurring with our customers. So one of the first things we did was restructure our organization by work stream. So for example, I was put in charge of order management, place orders and change orders. So the placing of an order and the changing of an order. I had a colleague who is in charge of processing quotes.
[00:10:41] Speaker A: And these are all different value streams.
[00:10:44] Speaker B: Of a larger product, correct? Exactly right. And it was ends up being an agile structure. I was really acted as the product owner in that regard. And I had backlog of a hundred items or so of different improvement areas that I had identified with the working team where we can make it easier for customers to do business with us. And so I prioritized and groomed those stories, worked with our, our offshore IT organization because most of the changes I'm talking about were it. And I'll say kind of in closing here, the real key to the reduction, 50% reduction, was moving to electronic data interchange to EDI.
[00:11:26] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:11:27] Speaker B: It systematically started working through our different airframe customers and installed an electronic data interchange with those companies so that we could pull their orders right out of their system. And that reduced a lot of the manual typing errors, keying errors, other discrepancies that we would see. We also did some other things like create some standard work around communication templates, so email templates. So if there was a particular communication that needed to be made by one of our order management agents, they would select the right one, pull that template in and use that to communicate. Because for many of them, English wasn't their first language. So this is very helpful in the communications. Some of our customers. So those are some of the things we did to drive that improvement, which really affected more than just cost savings, but better delivery, certainly better efficiency as well.
[00:12:22] Speaker A: You know, as well as I do, most companies, when they implement any kind of continuous improvement, really just it's usually the apartment, you know, that there are a couple people that are the change agents pushing things down to the people on the floor. The people on the floor don't really accept that because that's not really how change management works. At Allied Signal, they, they started with a structure. Larry Boss, that he set the stage and then everybody was trained under that to continuously improve throughout the whole organization. There was a structure that was put in place and it had a pretty significant effect. So that's, that's how you were trained. You were trained as a green belt under that structure.
[00:13:05] Speaker B: Yep, that's right.
[00:13:06] Speaker A: And that, and that, that mindset has. It's pretty much followed you from where you were to where you are now.
[00:13:14] Speaker B: Through absolutely all the way through a hundred percent.
[00:13:17] Speaker A: Alex Signal, through some of the other companies that you've been with. Honeywell, Rolls Royce, you've. You've led customer experience and quality at major companies.
[00:13:28] Speaker B: I did work in supply chain and quality role for a number of years at Honeywell. So that was an interesting divergent. I had worked in customer product support in the technical role, like I mentioned, but then I had an opportunity to take a directorship in supply chain where I was the director of customer quality. So I was responsible for some of our major airframes around the world for the product delivery and the quality thereof. So that was a different facet of continuous improvement that I hadn't worked in before. And an extremely exciting area, honestly.
[00:14:00] Speaker A: Well, you went from more of a production processing role into a more service and an IT role. So give us, give us what the regression was that kind of led you from one to the other.
[00:14:14] Speaker B: I think I selected me for the job because of just, you know, 20 years of experience in technical customer support.
They knew I hadn't worked in supply chain before. They knew I knew the products, they knew I knew the customers. I had to learn a little bit about quality methodology and so forth. I had a team of customer support managers around the world and for example, what their role was, my role as the leader of them would be to look at the different manufacturing sites that deliver. So Honeywell had 80 different production sites around the world. We would focus on the ones that were delivering to customer A. We'd look at those 10 sites, look at our quality performance on our products and we would develop zero defect plans to address the big drivers. Where are we really having the issues with returns or out of the box failures or these sort of defects. Right. That dissatisfy the customer. So we came up with some standard methodologies that work pretty well.
And so my team had to go into these manufacturing sites and work with them to commit to an improvement plan on, you know, these three part numbers. And so we would institute different quality methodologies with the supplier, maybe it was within the factory and our assembly processes to, to address whatever the key root cause drivers were. And so we'd forecast the improvement of quality into the future and then we would compare how our actual performance was to that. And that's, that's how we measured whether we were winning or losing by a forecasted quality improvement plan. And for new parts, you know, we are using some of the standards in the industry that are still used today of advanced product quality planning APQP along with PPAP to, to make sure that when, particularly for a new part that's coming to market, that it's actually robust, that all the risk is reduced to materials and processes and manpower and every facet to try to get it right the first time right off the bottom didn't always work. But that was the methods and they worked pretty well.
[00:16:23] Speaker A: So in your journey from Allied Signal to now, is it been more of a lean journey? Do you use Six Sigma data analysis? I know in Discount Tower we, you and your team took on some IT processes and had some pretty good results with it.
[00:16:41] Speaker B: I'll jump to the end in a sense you want to talk about some aha moments or revelations, you know, during our career? Well, well, one thing for me is, and you know this well, is you have to meet people where they are regardless of where you go. If you try teaching over their head, you know, it's just not going to stay. And so I had to go through that a little bit initially there not really knowing you Know, coming from an environment where people are 100% green belt trained and moving to an environment where they're. I think I pulled the business IT organization and I found maybe, you know, four to six belted people. And Discount Tire has been growing phenomenally. I mean, business has been so good to us. We're extremely grateful for our customer base and want to do everything we can to make an experience. As we say our strategy is to make it as inviting, easy and safe a tire buying experience as possible. So we're really dedicated to our customers. But in terms of approaching continuous improvement at Discount Tower, I did have to meet them where they were. Still our CIO had devised a program where we would establish our key work streams again and form teams around those and really use a domainic sort of approach to have a backlog of problems that the team had identified and work through those in that way. So largely we were using lean in the space that I was in, we were working more of our business related processes and really found the lean approach to value stream mapping, process mapping, this sort of thing. So we ran that program for a number of years. But then something miraculous occurred and that was the release of a new operating system, a discount tire across all of corporate. You know, our stores, almost 1500 stores nationwide now, had been developing their operating system for over 1660 years since customer. The company was founded 1960 by Bruce Holley in Ann Arbor, Michigan. By the way, if you, if you haven't read Six Tires no Plan, I highly recommend that book. Now that's Mr. Holley's book about his journey and it's one that I think you'd find inspiring.
Any rate, they had a 60 year head start. They had a lot of standards, processes rooted in customer satisfaction, employee satisfaction as a people based company. And so corporate really we hadn't, so this is a couple years ago. We now have this operating system that I think I may have explained to you before is a four faceted operating system that kind of to me resembles plan, do check, act, but what's really at the heart of it, in place of plan, we add our culture. Our company's culture is taught to every new employee and we live it, our culture, every day. That operating system was really designed not only as a continuous improvement system, which it certainly is, but also as a way to cement Mr. Holley's legacy and the culture that he built for his people. He was a servant leader and he wanted his people to be successful. And if he knew, if he had happy employees that he was going to get Happy customers that way. So that operating system is now something that I can re engage and build on because now I really have a foundation where we can use approaches like Lean and Six Sigma in reaction to underperforming KPIs. That's a place where we're using it most commonly right now is why is that gauge red? What are we, what are we doing wrong? Let's go do a Gemba call and go see audits. But same thing. Let's go find out what's going on. Let's find the root cause. So we're using dmaic, we're using some of the, some of the basic tools of Lean, and it works exceptionally well. So we'll build on that. I think there will be an opportunity. Certainly my goal is to bring the right tools at the right time to the organization and not. Not overdo it.
I've worked, tried to work in areas that I thought would add a lot of value in the past, but there really wasn't support for it and I learned not to do that.
[00:20:59] Speaker A: Discount Tower is different culture.
[00:21:01] Speaker B: Oh yeah.
[00:21:02] Speaker A: Times you have, you have to bring it in very slowly and a little bit at a time.
[00:21:07] Speaker B: We have a lot of great work ahead of us. A lot of challenges in that space. So I think Lean Six Sigma has a solid home. Continuous Improvement certainly has a solid home.
[00:21:18] Speaker A: I trained some of your engineers and they've taken on projects that are really kind of more focused in it. But on the store level and the store level, you've. You've got, I think you said 1500 stores. And I'm a customer of Discount Tire myself, thank you. And I'm pretty amazed that their process. Very professional. But going in and watching the process from the time you come in till the time you leave and the transparency that happens there. But you look at all these stores and you look at them doing the same thing over and over again and say, can I, can I superimpose one store onto another and see the same things done, the same kind of movements that, that variation in the way we do things that, that leads to, leads to things going wrong.
I think a couple of your engineers took on some projects that really had an effect on Discount Tire. I'm glad to see that. So, you know, you're more for the it, but I see a lot of opportunities and potential down at the, at the store level.
[00:22:26] Speaker B: Oh yeah, I think so too. In fact, I look forward maybe at some point in my career I switching over to our store operations side because I'd like to be involved back on the shop floor at some point in the future. I think I can make a difference there. It's largely today I'm working it and related business processes.
[00:22:48] Speaker A: Are projects really defined just kind of a shotgun level? Or are we looking at what projects best impact our KPI?
[00:22:59] Speaker B: Yeah, I think historically that probably was a bit of the case because lacking a standard operating system with well established KPIs and so that has. Identifying the right KPIs and a balanced scorecard to determine if we're winning or losing and delivering the perfect experience for our internal and external customers has been that focus of that operating system. So now as those KPIs are cementing and they continue to be tweaked and improved, we're identifying opportunities there for continuous improvement. So they're. They kind of come find us through our operating system now, which, which is fantastic.
[00:23:40] Speaker A: So that it tells you where you seem to hit the mark less than the others. Rather than sitting in a, in a wardrobe saying okay, I think this is wrong. The metrics actually lead you to where the next project is.
[00:23:53] Speaker B: I agree that that is the case. We're getting it better at acting on fact not working anecdotally.
[00:24:00] Speaker A: We want to let people know that our deployment leaders, they're trying to find out the right path to take to instill continuous improvement. I get calls every day from people they want to train green belts or they want to train yellow belts, take on master black belt projects.
Those projects are arbitrarily picked by the people in the ivory tower and they're just pointing where they see pains. And a lot of times they, they take on the wrong projects. They suboptimize. They take on projects that they're not even really projects. They remove this, justify the solution, whatever.
But you're. You're taking the approach and the what I believe is right approach by understanding what, what your targets are that, that make Discount Tire successful and then measuring those KPIs to understand where we are according to our targets and letting that that be. That be the method by which we pick projects. So every project that we take on is high return on investment, low resource and it has the, the biggest impact to, to our, our business.
[00:25:10] Speaker B: I'm smiling a little bit because I thought of another project that we worked that really came out of a voice of the employee activity that we're doing. I've had benefit of working with, with CEB or now Gartner when I worked at Honeywell and we have another partner, Discount Tower. So forth to the employee is A methodology we use. It's another continuous improvement methodology for happy employees, engaged employees. We had identified that our workload on our people can be high. You know, if you work in it, you're going to get stretched. You might be some after hours, some weekend work, some special project stuff, you know, same everywhere, I guess. But you certainly see it. And one of the drivers that was identified were meetings. And there's all kinds of defects with meetings. From having, having them when you don't need one to having them and then conducting them poorly.
[00:26:04] Speaker A: Sure. Or completing them to a meeting that's an hour long and where only five seconds of it pertains to you, but you have to sit in for the whole meeting.
[00:26:13] Speaker B: So I designed a, a defect capture log and I took a group of employees randomly. I said over the next two weeks, I want you to, in the meetings that you're in, I want you to log the defects that are listed out on this, the possible ones, and tick them off. No agenda, for example, no action items assigned or whatever. And so they did that for two weeks. And we identified some of the key failure modes. You know, why do meetings start late? Well, it's usually because the one prior ran over to attack those. We engaged our learning organization and actually came up with a, a, a training program. And, and that training program is used across all of corporate today to give some of the best practices for conducting successful meetings and with the good outcomes.
So that was just, I would say for me, Kevin, just setting up a simple defect measurement system on some processes can be super valuable with a really quick win.
[00:27:16] Speaker A: Well, you, you run, you run if you know what the impact those defects are in time or money. And you run something like a photo chart. You may have a hundred defects, right. But you may have 20% of them that are causing you 80% of your time. And all of a sudden it, it isn't such a big task to, to reduce those defects because you're not trying to reduce 100%. You're trying to find the vital few and separate those from the trivial many.
[00:27:46] Speaker B: Right.
[00:27:47] Speaker A: That's, that's something that, that I've learned is not to focus on, on the whole problem. It's futile. Find that, that small thing, then you solve it and then you translate it to everything else that looks like it. And a small fix becomes a very big fix, a very big dollar fix. So I often say that common sense is not very common.
We tend to try and solve world hunger rather than finding that village in that's very small, but has the most impact and then we can translate that to the rest.
One last question. So some insights from the trenches, from Rolls Royce to Honeywell to Allied Signal to Discount Tire.
And you've been in some different roles in continuous improvement in some different disciplines like manufacturing, service, customer service, it.
So if you were able to go back to your younger self and give yourself some points of intelligence, what would you tell your younger self?
[00:29:08] Speaker B: One of the biggest aha moments I had was in 2020 where I had this thought that it just seems like everything I do in that, like that order management role requires some sort of IT action in order to make it happen in the organization. Processes have become completely dependent upon the information technology organization I mentioned. I had been a product owner, but I really hadn't studied agile at all. So I took a Scrum Master course and became certified. And during that course, that's where I realized how entwined Agile is with Lean. And in fact came from Lean.
And everything resonated with me about Agile and how it works.
[00:29:55] Speaker A: Phenomenal methodology. Yes, yep.
[00:29:59] Speaker B: And how it follows so many of the exact same principles of Lean from, you know, letting the people that know the work do the work.
You know, it's the Scrum team that chooses what stories they're going to pull off and work during the sprint. And if they're having issues, it's the Scrum team that sorts out what the problem is and make some adjustments after the sprint is closed. Right. So that tie really, actually realizing that actually resulted in my having an opportunity to join Discount Tire. So kind of strange. The other adjacency to that is it turns out that a bank, let's say a bank, is actually an IT company with a banking license.
And so are most companies turning that way, whether it's B2B or B2C. That phenomena is certainly what has happened is when it's happening. So my point is you better know it if you're going to continuously improve. That needs to be a part of the knowledge base.
[00:31:03] Speaker A: Practitioners, I want to debate with you real quick. We're almost at the end of our podcast here. I tend to think the other way.
[00:31:11] Speaker B: Please tell me.
[00:31:12] Speaker A: I go, I go into a lot of companies and we talk about continuous improvement. We actually have a film that we show showing the progression of a process with Western Union to certify a vendor. And it shows the broken process. And the question I always ask my students is, now that we've seen the broken process, what are the things that we see wrong with it? And I'm looking for, I'm Looking for waste and variation. I always, always, every class, bar none, I get a lot of people that give me the answer, this is a very manual process, we should automate this. And I come back to him and say, when you automate this process, all you are doing is taking a complex manual process and you have now turned it into a very complex digital process. The only thing done is you've taken the paperwork that's visible and now it becomes digital cues.
So I fight this every day. We have become a society of we like shiny things.
So programs, apps, these are all shiny things to us. But really to improve our process, to me is taking it out of it and learning to reduce the complexity and then, then applying automation. So automation on top of complexity gives you, in most cases it makes things worse. I've, I've been in many, many companies that have implemented the ERP system and the, the salesman comes in and says this will, this will revolutionize what you do.
Right. And six months later, when everybody's has their own Excel spreadsheets and access databases and nobody, nobody trusts the system because it doesn't give them what they want. They didn't address the underlying complexity of the process before they put automation on top of it. So I don't necessarily believe that it is the shiny thing that, or the silver bullet that, you know, will solve all problems. I think automation is a great thing. But automating a process that is been streamlined and been optimized, that's, that's when you take into it to the next level.
[00:33:24] Speaker B: Yeah, and the Agile guys, the DevOps guys don't speak to it that way. They just say automate everything, you know, and so there's. Yeah, you point out a really, really good flaw that, that you really need to avoid. Yeah, that excellent. No, I appreciate your point. You're right. Yeah.
[00:33:38] Speaker A: And the other thing is, even in it, we tend to focus on lean.
Although we have the keys to the castle, we have the keys to the data. So in my career, I, I'm an engineer, but I grew up in it and so I saw the access to the data would help me improve processes on the floor. And this was back when it and the people on the floor, they didn't talk the same language. So I very much see the benefits of data and having access to data.
But I also see that, that companies like Discount Tire, you have some inherent variation that goes on, on your, in, at your stores. So when you have 1600 stores all doing the same thing, you look at those and say, are they all doing the exact same thing. Or, or is there a cultural learning that one store does it differently than another store Because Joey Bag of Donuts taught, Jimmy who taught, Jennifer who taught, Jack who taught. And over time we, we develop our own processes. So when you look at one store versus another store, you might see some pretty significant things that are going on. So I, I think, I think, you know, the concept of Six Sigma is a very viable component to continuously improving, you know, in your at your store level.
[00:35:08] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:35:08] Speaker C: That was an incredible look into the realities of building a continuous improvement culture. Kurt, thank you for sharing your journey and insights. A few key things really stood out. The critical difference between executive lip service and true educated buy in.
We also heard about the danger of treating a newly trained belt as a loan problem solver, which often leads to burnout and failure. But the most powerful takeaway is the absolute necessity of building a foundation, one where data and KPIs not the loudest voice in the room determine which projects get tackled. It's about creating an infrastructure for success before you ever train your first belt. Thank you for tuning in to this episode. To help us continue bringing you these conversations, please subscribe to our YouTube channel. It's a completely free way to support what we do. Make sure you're following the podcast on both Spotify and Apple so you get every new episode instantly. And finally, if you found value in today's discussion, please leave us a five star review. It makes a huge difference. We'll see you next time.
